Awarding the final debate to Bush?

Does this purely indicate wishful thinking?

Published on October 13, 2004 By Jamie Burnside In Politics

I have just finished watching the third presidential debate. The recent messages posted on JoeUser are awarding the third debate to Bush. (The declaration of victory may be a bit tepid, but it is there.)

I don't know... if you are a conservative idealogue, Bush probably hit all of your bullet points. He also didn't embarass himself. I suppose that's good news.

He didn't pull off a stunningly good debate ala Ronald Reagan or Bill Clinton. He did okay.

Kerry did the same as usual (per my opinion.) He wasn't fantastic, but he continued to try to establish the voting public's faith. I doubt that this debate caused him to lose any supporters that he had gained over the first two debates.

At best (for Bush) I would call this last debate a "wash."

(I am not even going to touch that (property tax-funded) boon for the national test-making companies referred to as "No Child Left Behind." For the sake of a veneer of impartiality: any analysis I attribute to the Bush effort will not cover that, as it has the possibility of eliminating or limiting my career choices.)

Comments (Page 1)

drmiler

on Oct 13, 2004

Awarding the final debate to Bush?

By: Jamie Burnside
Posted: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 on Jamie Burnside's Weblog
Message Board: Politics
I have just finished watching the third presidential debate. The recent messages posted on JoeUser are awarding the third debate to Bush. (The declaration of victory may be a bit tepid, but it is there.)
I don't know... if you are a conservative idealogue, Bush probably hit all of your bullet points. He also didn't embarass himself. I suppose that's good news.
He didn't pull off a stunningly good debate ala Ronald Reagan or Bill Clinton. He did okay.
Kerry did the same as usual (per my opinion.) He wasn't fantastic, but he continued to try to establish the voting public's faith. I doubt that this debate caused him to lose any supporters that he had gained over the first two debates.
At best (for Bush) I would call this last debate a "wash."
(I am not even going to touch that (property tax-funded) boon for the national test-making companies referred to as "No Child Left Behind." For the sake of a veneer of impartiality: any analysis I attribute to the Bush effort will not cover that, as it has the possibility of eliminating or limiting my career choices.)

I hate to tell you that you are the *only* one that feels this way, unless of course your @ DNC headquaters.

Draginol

on Oct 13, 2004

I suppose if you're a left wing idealogue then the debate probably was (at best) a wash for Kerry.

JillUser

on Oct 13, 2004

For the sake of a veneer of impartiality

I don't think you have shown even a veneer. Plenty of conservatives were/are realistic enough to say that Kerry won the first debate. If you can't even see how someone might consider it a win for Bush (even though you disagree) there isn't an impartial bone in your body.

T_Bone4Justice

on Oct 13, 2004

Jamie, the first poll taken immediately after the third and final presidential debate (CNN/Gallup/USA Today) shows that Kerry has won by more than 10% points. The poll numbers were announced during "Larry King Live" post debate coverage. You may not be able to find this poll on Gallup's website immediately because CNN has a contract with them for certain polling so CNN gets to announce certain Gallup poll results before anyone else.

Draginol

on Oct 13, 2004

So in other words we just take your word that what they flashed on the screen was a valid poll and not some sort of flash poll of a few dozen people or something.

Frankly, is it a left wing thing or just you guys that seem to need other people to tell you what to think. Of course, that is the Democratic thing - to have others - government or other "elites" to tell you what your opinions should be.

My opinion is that Bush won this won and lost the other two. That's my opinion. I don't need a poll to tell me what to think. But if you take comfort in being with the herd, more power to you.

Deference

on Oct 13, 2004

Looks like the majority of people aren't agreeing with you Drag. . I'm telling you that most people's impression of this debate is that Bush blew it again.

drmiler

on Oct 13, 2004

Reply #6 By: Deference - 10/13/2004 11:28:17 PM
Looks like the majority of people aren't agreeing with you Drag. . I'm telling you that most people's impression of this debate is that Bush blew it again.

That could be but, www.electorial-vote.com has Bush ahead by almost 70 points. I'll be looking again tomorrow to see just how much it changes. It's actually a little early to be looking at polls. They have not had the time to do a real accounting.

landen81

on Oct 14, 2004

That could be but, www.electorial-vote.com has Bush ahead by almost 70 points.

And the day before had him behind by 70 points. I guess we'll only know on November 3rd when the people or the Supreme Court choose our prez.

Grim Xiozan

on Oct 14, 2004

Yeah I was so dissappointed that Gore was unable to STEAL the election from Bush's hands, DRATS HE WAS SOOO CLOOOSSSEEE!!!

- Grim X
Go Badnarik Go!!

Bahu Virupaksha

on Oct 14, 2004

I have in my Blog posted today say the same thing. Bush performed well, unlike in the other two debates, but it is too late in the day t
to make a difference. This will not be a close race as in 2000. If the voter turnout in high, John Kerry can smile all the way to the White House. If the voter turnout is at the Nov 2000 level then it will be the same sad story, the popular vote going to Kerry and the electoral college going to Bush. It is time the USA did away with the Electoral College and went in for propotional representation which would make the election more transparent and democratic.

drmiler

on Oct 14, 2004

Reply #10 By: Bahu Virupaksha - 10/14/2004 1:37:34 AM
I have in my Blog posted today say the same thing. Bush performed well, unlike in the other two debates, but it is too late in the day t
to make a difference. This will not be a close race as in 2000. If the voter turnout in high, John Kerry can smile all the way to the White House. If the voter turnout is at the Nov 2000 level then it will be the same sad story, the popular vote going to Kerry and the electoral college going to Bush. It is time the USA did away with the Electoral College and went in for propotional representation which would make the election more transparent and democratic.

This post shows how much you don't know! This race will be close and if either win it won't be by much.

Myrrander

on Oct 14, 2004

if you are a conservative idealogue

I'm not, but I'm still saying Bush was the more convincing debator last night.

Iron Rob

on Oct 14, 2004

I'm with you Jamie.

I don't think either guy was particularly convincing when it came to explaining how they were going to pay for things.

But I don't know how anyone could say Bush was more convincing the way he kept dodging questions. When asked about jobs, he talked about no child left behind. When asked about minimum wage, he talked about no child left behind. When Kerry confronted him on not fully funding no child left behind, he said, "We've increased education funding by 49%." And Kerry rightly pointed out that success is not measured by percentage points. It's measured by results. And the result of not fully funding no child left behind is that teachers have been laid off and after school programs have been canceled.

The most telling moment of the debate for me was when Bush answered the question about why he didn't fight for the the assault weapons ban by saying, "The Republicans and Democrats in the house didn't support it." That's the man's style of leadership in a nutshell. He's great at sticking to his principles even when it's obvious they're wrong, but if called upon to try to actually lead anyone else in his direction, he either acts like a bully or doesn't bother.

I think it's obvious why the polls showed Kerry won even this third debate. Bush may have done better than he'd done before, but that was still pretty pathetic.

Jamie Burnside

on Oct 14, 2004

Right Rob.

Let me expand a bit on all of that, but in a little bit of a different direction.

I posted something like this on another blog, and I think that it is worthy of repeating:

Kerry misspoke in a way when -in last night's debate- he claimed that Bush had never met with the Senate Black Caucus. Sadly for Kerry, the word that he left out was "willingly." Apparently -as a result of being rebuffed- the caucus got on a bus and showed up uninvited to meet with the President. Bush indeed saw them at that time.

This was a case where Kerry "fibbed" while Bush technically did meet with that caucus. (This ends up being one of those "letter of the law/ spirit of the law" type of debates.)

What I am curious about is whether Bush actually did meet with some representative of the NAACP. That question seemed to have just drifted off into the stratosphere after it had been raised. I would be surprised if Bush hadn't met with them. The photo-opportunities/ lip-service is good publicity.

zergimmi

on Oct 14, 2004

Interesting to note that a majority of comentators gave the debate to Kerry, I didn't watch myself, not being a citizen myself.

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